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Joe
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PostSubject: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 3:09

Robert and I have gone over this material (and has Marc), and we are convinced this is a tornado.

What do you think?




Here is the corresponding video: Watch time index 2:21 and onward

http://exwx.net/june-24th-tornadic-supercell-sd

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 3:22

AS you you view the image. Notice that there is evidence of rotation in the middle portion of the collumn. You can clearly see the hail shaft to the right hand side of the image. Also in the video. spotter did report a tornado on the ground out side of Alpeana, which we where a few hundred yards east of the town its self. I have viewed the videos, and my images and I am convinced this is the tornado that was identifed.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 8:18

That Looks like a small Funnel but not a Tornado. In the Background that looks like a rain shaft. This is when the Tornado look a Likes come into Play. But that's just My Opinion..
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 11:05

To me thats a rain shaft with a possible funnel at the very top. but I wouldnt personally consider it a tornado. Maybe have Todd H look over the video and any pictures we have. IF he says anything it could add extra evidence to that day that the storms happened.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 12:51

Already did that Jason. I'm all over it. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 12:53

Yes, that is rain. However, if you look at the shape and the movements,
it is very possible that this rain shaft could have been rotating in
the vortex that is invisible (until debris gets sucked into it).
However insignificant this "tornado" may have been, it was definitely
there. Tornado, maybe... a spin up, at least that. How else can you
explain such a chaotic strip of "rain" in that particular spot only,
directly under the funnel? More than coincidence in my opinion. May not
have been much, but in my experiences, rain has been seen wrapped into
a spinning column of air directly under the funnel and in turn, shows
that this particular funnel may have had more to it that we (you guys)
couldn't see at the time. If you look at the picture, it's a textbook
structure. Something was definitely there.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 12:58

Don't know for sure, the only thing that really makes me think it's a tornado is that it's darker on the bottom which means there is debris (dirt/dust) but other than that, I do also kind of think that it could be a small rain and or hail shaft. It's hard to tell, if only there was another camera angle on it...

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:04

Joe, that is exactly what Rob and I thought. That is why we first thought tornado. If you watch the video, the shape of it does not conform to that of any typical rain shaft or hail core.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:08

The spot on the video that makes me lean towards rain is 3:00... keep in mind that could have been part of a downdraft, looks as though you're right by the wall cloud because that could have been the RFD interferring with it.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:09

Joe wrote:
Watch time index 2:46 and you'll see what I mean. Not to mention the amount of rotation that is clearly visible.

yeah, it's definately got a "S" curve going on, completely non-typical of a shaft....

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:12

yeah, I know..... it's just one of those that's hard to distinguish.... like i said the reason that I think it's a nado is that it's darker by the ground but then 3:00 into it makes me think otherwise, we'll have to see what Todd Heitkamp (NWS) says....

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:15

The video is not as detailed because of the backlight and horrible camera contrast. The pictures were taken by a still camera (not video) and I have the original of that. That's the only place you can see any detail on whether or not that is debris.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:15

I'm right there with you...

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:15

It looks more like a Funnel cloud popping out. And if u look at the Pic the rain shaft looks to be behind that wall of clouds.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:16

When i hear back from Todd ill post what he says!!
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:17

This point in time, we can only rely on speculation... But I'm convinced there was more too it than this.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:17

sounds great forrest, i'm interested to see what he says.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:18

Joe wrote:
This point in time, we can only rely on speculation... But I'm convinced there was more too it than this.

yeah, the nice thing about it is that Todd should be able to pull up archived radar data and view it is he feels like it .

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:20

joe_2mill wrote:
Joe wrote:
This point in time, we can only rely on speculation... But I'm convinced there was more too it than this.

yeah, the nice thing about it is that Todd should be able to pull up archived radar data and view it is he feels like it .

I'm not certain as to what good radar will do at this point... there was circulation, there was evidence of a wall cloud, there was reports being issued by the NWS of a tornado on the ground... who knows. I guess we'll wait and find out.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:37

Keep in mind this is my opinion!!!

the reason I don't always trust NWS reports is because 6-21-09 Rock Valley, IA I was on this wall cloud the whole time and then my pager (FD) and WX radio goes off saying there has been a tornado reported at the exact location I was at +/- a mile I didn't see anything except for a rotating wall cloud. I know that there was no tornado at my location because I was there and no way did I see a tornado.

I called into the Fire Station to find out who reported the tornado and it turned out to be one of our probie fire fighters who was at his house which is almost 4 miles away from where I was at when I was alerted of a tornado. He didn't even have a clear view of the horizon to actually see the base, he just saw the wall cloud, thought it was touching the ground (even though he couldn't see it) and called it in... I was quite upset and set him straight but still the NWS has it on their report for that day even though all it was, was a rotating wall cloud.

Too many people have access to the NWS phone# and call too much IMHO, it can easily turn into the boy who cried wolf situation and for that reason I don't always trust the report if I'm on a chase.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:38

True, very true...

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:50

True that Joe!!
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:53

I'm not trying to confirm anything... your opinion/guess is as good as mine, and yours' are certainly welcomed.

As to the real fact of what is what... no telling for certain.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:54

I like how this Debate is going. At lease we have our Views on things.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed!   Mon 1 Mar 2010 - 13:55

Same here Joe, just like you said the backlight is what throws me off, it would be great to have a view from the other side

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